Two Kingdoms?

June 1, 2010Mark Van Steenwyk

A long while back, someone asked me to clarify my views on the relationship between the Church and the State. You see, there are all kinds of ways of looking at how they relate. And this is only complicated by the fact that what folks mean by “church” or “state” is never nail-down-able. There are different understandings of each and different expressions of each. Nevertheless, I want to try to get at this question by starting with my own story. My goal here is to briefly lay out my own take on what Christians should do with government (and other systems that exert power over us).

When I became a Christian in my teens, I was slowly sucked into adopting an increasingly conservative political way of seeing the world. I had moments, here and there, where the radical message of Jesus tried to come out, but it was usually rebuked away. And so, by the time I was 18 I was both an ardent follower of Jesus and an eager devotee of Rush Limbaugh.

That explains, at least in part, this image to the right. Yes, folks, that is a younger Mark Van Steenwyk proudly wearing a red, white, and blue rodeo-style shirt.

Up until my early-to-mid 20s, I wouldn’t have seen much of a conflict between the Kingdom of God and the US of A. I would have gladly affirmed the wise truths of the likes of Glenn Beck. And, if I were ever to disagree with conservative radio hosts, it would only have been because I was, ever-so-slightly, more libertarian than they were.

It would be fair to say that I believe that the Church was God’s beacon of light in the world to save people’s souls, and that the USA (and her allies) was God’s beacon of light in the world to save people from tyranny. These two kingdoms were, I believed, allies with only slight quarrels. And those quarrels were resolved through culture wars–where the Church re-asserted divine values so that the people of the US would be guided rightly.

In my mid-twenties, I had a crisis of faith. I realized–and it came as quite a shock–that I really didn’t love Jesus very much. I realized that I had treated him formulaicly. I realized that I really didn’t enjoy reading the Gospels, and that I thought Paul was a lot smarter than Jesus. Being a clever young man, I realized that either I needed to re-center my thinking and way of life on Christ, or I had to somehow maneuver myself theologically into justifying my marginalizing of Jesus. For some reason that I don’t quite understand, I gambled on Jesus.

This wasn’t a quick decision. It required months of cognitive-dissonance-fueled depression.

During that time, I came back to some conclusions that were rebuked away in my youth. I affirmed Jesus’ way of peace and poverty. From there, I stumbled into Anabaptist and Liberationist readings of Scripture. And my view of government became increasingly anarchic.

Let me clarify: anarchy isn’t blowing crap up. Anarchy isn’t chaos. It is, at its most basic, the conviction that there should be no hierarchies between people. Governments involve the rule over the many by the few…even in “democracies.” Corporations involve ownership of the few through the work of the many…even in “nice” companies like Apple. Etc. Any time anyone sets themselves over another, there is injustice. Anarchy rejects such over-one-another-ness and seeks to nurture deep mutuality. And, I believe, that this is very much complementary to the movement Jesus sparked 2000 years ago.

But, for a while, I still clung to this idea that there are two Kingdoms: on the one hand you have the kingdom of God, on the other hand you have Empire…the governments and powers of the world. I believed that, as a Christian, my duty was to nurture the Kingdom of God, and to disregard the other stuff altogether. In other words, I believed that I should proclaim Christ’s rule and, if those submitted to other authorities wanted to come and join team Jesus, they should leave Empire. I still resonate, mostly, with this.

However, in recent months I’ve shifted in some of my thinking. I once believed that followers of Jesus should really limit their engagement with government. That our task was purely evangelistic–to woo people out of Empire and into the Kingdom of God. But now, I’ve come to view the government in a different way. But, before I get to that, let me pause to clarify at least three of the predominant ways people understand these two “kingdoms.”

The view of Unam sanctum: Basically, in 1302, Pope Boniface VIII affirmed that there are two “swords”–a spiritual sword and a temporal sword. These two different sorts of authority…church authority and earthly authority. However, spiritual authority trumps earthly authority. Therefore, the Pope is God’s highest authority on earth. While it is easy to dismiss this view (and to see how it contributed to the Reformation), once can find variations of this in American society today. This is, essentially the view I held as a young man. I believed that America could only be a righteous beacon of liberty in the world insofar as it was properly submitted to the values of Jesus. In other words, America is awesome because it is a Christian nation. Jesus trumps America, paper covers rock.

One promblem with this view: Uh. There is something strange about using the religion started by a homeless prophet who preached good news to the poor and love of enemy as some sort of guiding set of values for Empire. Governments are made for power…the way of Jesus doesn’t really give much positive value to coercion and power.

Luther’s view: God rules the world through two kingdoms…one is the kingdom of the world, the other is the kingdom of God. He rules the world with reason and law by ordaining institutions like governments. The worldly kingdom restrains the “ravenous wolves” of the world. He rules the church through faith and grace. In this view, Christians are called to engage actively in both kingdoms in hopes that the kingdom of God can transform the kingdom of the world, however the two kingdoms are to remain seperate. They are both God’s kingdoms, both sanctioned, and are both to resist evil, each in their own seperate spheres. In other words, both God’s kingdom and Caesar’s kingdom are from God, and we should give proper respect to both, and engage in both.

One problem with Luther’s wiew: This leads to an impotent church. Conflicts of interest are kept to a minimum by a sort of dualism that easily seperates spirituality from every day life. This perspective is prevalent…and it allows for someone like George W. Bush or Barack Obama to espouse a firm commitment to Jesus Christ while bombing people (including the extra-wicked use of cluster bombs).

One traditional Anabaptist view: The two kingdoms should be kept totally seperate. Once you are baptized, you have nothing to do with the kingdom of the world. You can’t be a soldier or in the government. There are some variations on the view. For example, some early Anabaptists thought it was ok to work in certain government jobs. However, Anabaptists have generally held that our allegiance to Christ means that the worldly “kingdom” is not our kingdom. In other words, God’s kingdom is ok…and, perhaps, so is Caesar’s…but we should let Caesar have his kingdom and we’ll stay out of it. I realize that folks usually peg Anabaptists as separatists who have washed their hands and have left the world to its own devices. But this is an unfair perspective. While Anabaptists have, traditionally stayed out of politics and military, etc, they have been involved in service, relief, education and more around the world in a way that is largely disproportionate to their numbers.

Problem with this view: However, there can still be a lack of concern for the problems of the world that flows out of this. Also, this view allows for great acts of charity, but it potentially limits one’s ability to do justice. In other words, if Anabaptists avoid engaging structures of oppression, the best they can do is run from oppression or try to pull people out of oppressive structures. Yet, there tends to be an inability to challenge or reform oppressive structures.

There are other views, to be sure. And, though I’m attributing these three views to three different groups, these ideas aren’t unique to these groups. In other words, lots of people have grappled with these ideas in similar ways. But, it seems to me, these give us a general sense of three ways folks tend to think about how “two kingdoms” relate to one another.

I, quite frankly, see all of them as unsatisfactory. Oddly enough, I find myself resonating most with the first and third views. To me, if Jesus is king, he is king. If someone has to rule over everything, it should be Jesus. And his Church is his representative on earth. I mean, most Christian have always held that this is the way it will be in End. And, since I have a (mostly) realized eschatology, there is a straight-forwardness to this approach. However, I don’t think coercion and violence and domination fit with whatever I would consider Christ’s rule. So, I affirm the Anabaptist conviction that we shouldn’t contribute into systems of oppression.

The Un-Kingdom of God: In other words, I affirm that only Christ has authority to rule over the earth…and that the Church is his embodiment on earth. But, I don’t affirm, when it comes to tangible power, Christ’s Supremacy. Rather, I affirm his subservience…he is an “unking.” Jesus has the right to rule, but he doesn’t. And, neither should governments.

I don’t believe in two separate kingdoms with two separate spheres. Instead, I believe in an unkingdom–I believe in Anarchy in the way of Jesus. And any government that tries to set up authority–to oppress or dominate or rule over overs–is utterly illegitimate.

I affirm, as I did when I wrote this, that we aren’t to take up arms to challenge systems of oppression. But I’ve become increasingly convinced that, since only the un-kingdom of God, which is anarchic, is what God desires for our world, it is our duty as the Church to subvert the government, to non-violently revolt. Rather than simply ignoring it, we must struggle against it. Proactively. Actively. Creatively. We must take it down brick by brick. But, as with everything, we must do so with love.

And we must seek to replace it by forming, in the midst of the ruins of the old world, autonomous communities of deep mutuality and liberation. We must both create alternatives, as well as resist systems of oppression. If you do the former without the latter, you end up with a disconnected enclave. If you do the latter without the former, you end up making a lot of noise that never goes anywhere.

  • Robin

    I enjoyed that because I am really wrestling myself with how following Jesus works out in my life and how it affects my engagement with the political and social realms in this country. Trying to get better at writing out the current state of my thoughts and I don't feel like I do very well at that.
    Politically libertarian thought is the most appealing to me because I think it allows people to act out their belief systems the best. But living out Christs commands would probably look more socialist in practice than anything else. The way I see it we are to give our 2nd cloak away if we see someone in need but no instructions out there about taking it from someone who has extra and giving it away.
    Lately Ezekial 34 has really been influencing my thought about the state of our country and world. I feel like we are acting as bad shepherds that not only aren't guarding the flock but we are scattering them, trampling the clean water and shoving aside the needy.

  • http://satellitesaint.blogspot.com/ Tucker

    I like the way you break down the different positions. I too came from a conservative religious & political background. I had always heard that people tend to be radical/leftist in their youth and change to safe/conservative in their old age. I find myself going in the opposite direction. The question of empire/power is a huge one that I wrestle with. I have, at times, considered being more involved in my local government – I have been on a couple of advisory committees (health and human services kinds of things) – but I don't think I could play the game of getting votes and doing the political thing. And I don't want to support power structures by so obviously agreeing with their existence. On the other hand I want to do more than charity work (though that might be the highest calling). I believe, however, that whatever direction one goes it is important to know that there is nothing one can do to fundamentally change other's hearts except to be used by God however God chooses, and that might lead to more surprises than our philosophies can conjure.

  • jonaslundstrom

    Great text! It seems I have travelled the same road as you (although in a somewhat different context). I fully agree!

  • http://www.jacobmichael.org Jacob M

    Thank you for your honesty…. this is phenom! What was that you said about a 'funk?' lol… keep 'em coming!

  • jonaslundstrom

    Mark. A couple of more things.
    - I think the anabaptist movement originally were much more in the bussiness of confronting the powers with the reality of the kingdom of god, even though their theology didn't quite have the power to sustain this attitude/practice. And for this reason I think it's important to combine listening to the anabaptist tradition with influences from anarchism.
    – In my experience, there are others that for some reason are moving from the lutheran perspective into the anabaptist perspective, and then continue unto the anarcho-anabaptist position you opt for. Greg Boyd, to me, seems to be one of those people, even though I think he at the present is somewhere in the middle between the lutheran and the anabaptist perspective (in Myth of a Christian Religion). Do you think there is hope that he will continue the journey?
    -I'm not sure “revolt” is a good word (I recommend the book on Acts – World Upside Down, in this regard), from my perspective it's more about undermining the system, resisting, developing alternatives. I´m not sure revolution is a good thing.
    -In struggling against the system, would you (only) include actions that obeys the principles of the tradition of civil disobedience, or would you leave a place for anonymous actions, sabotage etc?

  • http://markvans.info markvans

    I don't think it is particularly helpful to frame resistance around whether or not something is “violent” or “non-violent” since these terms have generally be set by Gandhian thought. And so we're left with the strange task of defending Jesus' temple cleansing as violent. By modern sensibilities, it could be seen as violent. But if you concede that, then folks immediately think that you have given moral ground to shoot Hitler in the face.

    I think a better criteria is needed. And, to get to your point, faithful action could legitimately include (with much discernment) anonymous actions, sabotage, and property destruction. Taking human life is another thing all together. I don't affirm that at all.

  • Chris

    Thanks Mark. This gets at the very heart of my own faith journey at the moment. I've gone from Lutheran to Libertarian to Liberal and now I think the problem may be with the letter “L” ;-)

    A lot of anarchist thought really resonates with me, but I still experience a little cognitive dissonance — as if we'll ever actually “perfect” our thinking. I think this discussion is on the right track.

  • jonaslundstrom

    Yeah, I agree. Although I, with some hesitation, still find the term non-violence helpful, despite the critique of Churchill, Zizek, Jensen and Dan O. But I have listened to them to the degree that the concepts of pacifism and non-violence is less central to me today. As a follower of Jesus, I think it's much more important to talk about and practice enemy-love. With some explanation though, I think it's possible with some explanation to help people see that property destruction is not (normally) to be considered violence.

  • http://markvans.info markvans

    I still use the term nonviolence–and find it helpful. I find some critiques of nonviolence more useful than others–though I think Churchill and Jensen are simply challenging a strawman (I'm not as familiar with Zizek's take). I find it frustrating how many anarchists simply regurgitate Churchill and Jensen. I mean, if you're an anarchist, shouldn't you think more for yourself? ;)

  • Johnsonbrianpatrick

    This article concludes really well – creating alternatives and resisting systems. Creativity. The very existence of JM and some of our intentional communities show the alternatives. What are some good modes of resistance? I threw our tax resistance a while back. Other ways?

  • http://cimarronline.blogspot.com/2004/05/paul-munn.html paul munn

    You say, Mark, that “Jesus has the right to rule, but he doesn’t. And, neither should governments.” I wholeheartedly agree with the second sentence. And I agree with Jesus' right to rule. I also agree that he didn't rule while he lived on earth, and that is the reason we should not rule over each other.

    But you seem to be saying that Jesus doesn't rule now (or ever will?). I don't see where you get that impression, or on what you base that belief. The bible, including Jesus' own statements about himself, seems to state the opposite, as I read it. Do you also think God does not rule? Is Jesus not God?

    I'm not nitpicking over some irrelevant doctrinal point here. I think the movement, especially among peace-promoters, to emphasize Jesus' nonviolence and servanthood seems to want to also strip Jesus of his sovereignty or any king-like attribute. And I think this is both unfaithful to Jesus' witness and also a major hindrance in trying to follow Jesus' example of nonviolence and servanthood. As I've said here before, Jesus' (God's) sovereignty and all his promises related to this were taught to us to help us be humble servants, trusting in the rule and power of our Savior.

  • http://www.cascadiacac.org/ dir'k ziska

    I strongly believe that the accusation of “regurgitation” is not a just one and is quite disrespectful of the lived experiences of domination of myself and others who have legitimate concerns for the dignity and security of our own persyns and communities. It smacks of arrogance to simply dismiss the life concerns of others simply because they may share some language with well known authors, who happen to also be speaking from lived experiences of violent domination. Are the only voices welcomed those who are not 'contaminated' by the 'bias' of knowing something of violence first hand? I have experienced a startling parallel between the stridently held 'nonviolent' ethos and an unwillingness to address questions of privilege and undoing oppression on down it's most persynal manifestations. I would love to have this question engaged.

  • mariakirby

    A chair with three legs does not fall down.

  • rheimbro

    I am curious if you could go into possible situations where those methods might be appropriate. Would the temple cleansing be a model for engaging in property destruction/sabotage without taking on violent action towards other people specifically? Are there other passages you find illuminating?

    I have mixed feeling about those sorts of actions, but I suppose that is why you emphasize that much discernment is needed.

  • http://markvans.info markvans

    You don't think some anarchists regurgitate these folks? I see folks regurgitating all kinds of stuff without grappling with it themselves. You also seem to make a HUGE assumption that Jensen readers are more likely to be among the oppressed than among the priveleged. Maybe. Probably not. And where are you seeing strident defenses of nonviolence or any biting accusations here? I only see you taking such a posture. Who here is making unfair assumptions?

  • http://markvans.info markvans

    To clarify: by “all kinds of stuff” I mean everything from MLK to Bakunin to Jensen to Graeber. Since the person I'm responding to brought up jensen and churchill and zizek, I think it is fair for folks to be called to deep wrestling before quoting these folks to legitimate the use of violence. Why is such a suggestion so contemptable?

  • K—

    Hey Mark, I would love to share this with people but I feel that I am limited by your usage of the word “shit” and “hell” (albeit they were both only used once). I personally have no problems with the language, but just thought I'd let you know that it might alienate others who otherwise might be open to your wise (and may I say, right on) words.

    • http://www.markvans.info Mark Van Steenwyk

      That’s certainly a valid concern. I’ll take a look at the article and consider making changes so that it is more easily shared.

  • Jason

    Really solid piece, well written and I find myself in agreement with a lot, if not all, of it.

  • http://markvans.info markvans

    In a manner of speaking, I affirm the supremacy and sovereignty of Christ. But I don't think those words mean what they they usually mean. Christ's supremacy and sovereignty isn't like being President Obama only more. It isn't like being the Pope only more. It is an entirely different sort of supremacy and sovereignty to the point that it is, perhaps, more faithful to talk about the subvervience and servility of Christ.

    I don't believe that Christ's future “rule” is substantially different than his current “rule.” To me, Jesus' reign begins with his anointing and is demonstrated clearly in his refusal of Satan's temptations in the wilderness. I don't believe his refusal communicated “I'll get to ruling over everything later” but, rather, “I reject ruling OVER entirely.”

  • http://cimarronline.blogspot.com/2004/05/paul-munn.html paul munn

    I agree that Jesus never “ruled over” as a human being on earth, and so that is our example to follow. But he is also God, ruling as God now and in his physical return in the future, isn't he? The difference, as I see it, is the difference between God and man (humanity). Jesus didn't reject “ruling over” altogether, but laid it down, humbling himself, in becoming a man. And teaching us also to lay down our (limited) ability to rule over, trusting our Father who rules over much better and more justly (and mercifully) than we ever could.

    Or maybe you think God also does not “rule over”? Both the bible and my personal experience insist that he does.

  • Jking316

    I think what you have brilliantly come up with is a reflection of many peoples pursuit to seeking the kingdom of God with all your heart and mind.

    We get so frustrated by how the framework of our for fathers have been laid out for us, and we run into a communication breakdown naturally when we pick up that book called the Bible because its about a King, a Kingdom, and a royal family(Gods off-spring). And all we understand or at least been raised in, is a democracy system. Gen 1:26 tells us that God gave us(Man-spirit being) and let them have “Dominion” over a list of things but not over other man. Dominion in Genesis is translated in the hebrew and greek as Rulership and Kingdom. “Let them have Kingdom over the earth, Let them have rulership over earth….not people.

    Isaiah 9:6 tells us that Jesus was coming to bring something on His shoulders. It is evident that when Adam fell, He fell from Authority over the earth, he gave that authority to the enemy(satan), Jesus came to bind the “strongman”(satan) and position fallen man back to their original state in Genesis. Its called “Restoration”, “Redemption”, and you can go on with the “Re” prefix words that express that we need to go back to our original state. What Jesus brought on his shoulders he establishes as his declaration message found in Matthew 4:17 “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand”

    Jesus describes the kingdom of God as yeast a women put in dough. Yeast goes in the dough and infects the dough causing it to rise. We were called to go “into' the world(order of influence) and bring a counter influence which is the kingdom of God. Not a un-kingdom.

    There is a lot to understand about the kingdom of God but I will tell you that in Gods perspective the church is the state!

  • Jking316

    As i follow this discussion I am in amazement that both you and mark can read the whole Bible and not say that Jesus as a human never “ruled over” anything, or expressed His dominion. Did we all just miss all the miracles he performed when he Ruled over sickness and death. Up until calvary death ruled man, but Jesus came and was crucified and buried and tree days later rose from the grave and took the power(rule) that death had over us. Death where is your sting? He ruled the wind when He spoke to it and calmed it. He took 2 loaves and five fish and multiplied atoms to feed five thousand people. This son of Man expressed rulership alright. He pulled rank with His disciples when they started to tell Jesus what they have given up to follow Him and Jesus response was “you didnt choose me, I chose you.” Thats absolute authority, and he also mentioned that he has 100 houses for the one they claim they left for Him.

    I guess my humble question would be what purpose did God have in mind when he began to create this visible arena we live in, and what role was “man' supposed to play in?

    I apologize if I sound like im getting carried away, its all love:-)

  • John Tracey

    The two kingdoms and two swords theories are based on a pillar of Hellenistic dualism – the dimensional separation of spirit and matter, body from soul and heaven from earth. This dualism is nowhere in the bible and is contradicted by the wholism of biblical Hebrew spirituality and Jesus own words “Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.”

    The following essay is written from an Australian perspective but the focus on the council of Nicea is relevant to all churches in understanding the unity of church and state in the history of Christendom.

    “Truth and Tradition. Why does the church act as an agent of colonisation?”
    http://newaustralianwineskins.wordpress.com/201

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