The Iconocast Episode 3: Waziyatawin (part 1)

Towards the end, she basically suggests that Western Civilization as it is takes it shape from Christianity, not simply in spite of Christianity. In other words, our faith is intrinsically oppressive to the land and is, likewise, oppressive to other groups because we believe in our own superiority.

Part of me wanted to argue with her, but I felt the need to remain in a penitential space in the interview. I realized the foolishness of saying “sure, I know it has been that way for about 1700 years, but it hasn't always been like that…” When the bathwater is acid, and it is beginning to spill over onto the babies sitting on the bathroom floor, maybe it is legitimate to throw out the baby with the bathwater?

But I'm not willing or wanting to jettison my faith. Yet her challenge remains. What are we, therefore, supposed to do as a response to Waz's critique of Christianity?

She bases her allegations of Christianity on a particular reading of John 14:6. I think there are certain universals that are common to all religions, like loving your neighbor as yourself. In my opinion the essence of Jesus and his message is forgiveness. We can't come to God without forgiveness, and to follow Jesus is to forgive others. The power of forgiveness raised Jesus from the dead and will do the same for us. We can't love others without forgiving them. Jesus isn't just the fulfillment of Jewish law, he is the fulfillment of all religions, because without Jesus, the very embodiment of forgiveness, there is no loving your neighbor as yourself.

While Western Christianity has its roots in Roman culture, Jesus taught servant leadership. I think we can throw out the imperial/domination that many people associate with Christianity and pick up our crosses and defeat evil through self sacrifice. And I think we can embrace the truths God has shown other religions including the Dakotas about himself without abandoning or compromising the truth of forgiveness that he has shown us through Christ.

God's justice does not take away eye for an eye, it heals the eyes of those who've been blinded; he brings joy to those who've been in pain. The areas in our lives where we have experienced loss and injustice are merely windows into which God wants to shine his glory. A house with no windows is a very dark house.

Regarding 1: Waz raises the necessary questions for us for to understand how we got to our modern context. The end of part one and the entirety of part 2 gets into that more explicitly.

Regarding 2: Several of the folks involved in JM or Iconocast are certainly exploring anarcho-primitivism. But I wouldn't say that we're tending more and more in that direction. Part of this perceived shift comes from my own internal processing. When I start to connect with more pockets of radical Christianity–including challenges to my own “sort” of radicalism, I feel the need to explore it further. In other words, this is a theme we're exploring, but that doesn't mean we'll land there. We want to explore multiple strands of radical Christianity: liberationist, anabaptist, anarchist, etc.

If industry were powered by renewable energy and used as their resources the waste of society then I'm not sure how it could be considered “unjust” or part of an imperial/colonial system. As I understand it industry started with the making of clothes.

Well, because it is difficult to see how to create such a utopian industrial system starting from where we are rather than where we'd like to be. Even using the 'waste of society' needs a highly wasteful society to generate the excess waste you need to generate the energy to be consumed by the egotistical self-consuming society. Any group of people living in luxury requires the presence of the subservient weak to prosper. We're so addicted to the lives we lead that we don't even notice it.

I wouldn`t call metals renewable, since there's no way the mountains can be filled up with them again. But I agree that recycling is a good thing, although I doubt that this can save industry. Recycling still needs lots of energy, transports and different kind of tools, factories and equipment to succeed.

You guys might know more about recycling than I do. My understanding is that the reduced size of electronics today has much more to do with improved means of lithography than it does new types of materials. And that most electronic parts use primarily copper, silicon, carbon, gold, silver, and tin. The amount gallium, titanium, or other rare metals that are used to create the doping necessary to create transistors, LEDs and other such devices are very minute.

I'm not sure why getting titanium would seem to be so much easier if it were extracted from tonnes of rock than off the surfaces of old teflon coated pots and pans. And I'm sure that many of those other rare minerals could be found in other things we commonly throw out. If we run out of garbage to recycle for rare metals we could burn plants and accelerate the smoke/ash through a magnetic field and the rare metals would separate themselves out. Yes, that would take a fair bit of energy, but as I see it, we are squandering the energy we get now. If we were responsible with what we have then I believe there would be plenty for us to make the technological advances we need.

Metals, unlike paper, can be reworked an infinite amount of times without their loosing their metallic properties. When paper is remade into new paper some of the cellulose and ligand fibers are broken down. So new cellulose needs to be added to maintain the paper strength. That's why some kinds of paper cannot be made from 100% recycled content.

It's true, what she said about manifest destiny. The American empire started with displacing indigenous tribes, then took over the Philippines and now there are military bases (forts) all over the world. And the scriptures she quoted were the ones used to justify it. We could try to point out that they meant something different in their own historic context, that Jesus was giving hope to an oppressed group of people, but coming from the mouths of white americans, it would seem like a lame excuse. We have lost our right to speak. It is we who should be walking the trail of tears. No, even then we would be polluting sacred ground.