Calendar Grrlz

December 4, 2013Administrator

Post image for Calendar Grrlz

Editorial note: The following story was submitted to Jesus Radicals anonymously. As with all of our reader-generated essays, the story fits the web site’s goal of fostering conversations about intersections between anarchism and Christianity, and its content is in keeping with our submission guidelines. As with all of our published articles, it is also subject to the disclaimer located on the lower right side of all posts.

On the weekend of Black Friday, a group of three people emptied a calendar stand of its entire stock of sexist and objectifying products.

Every day on the way to work, we had to walk by this kiosk.  Each passing encounter forced a specific sexuality and beauty standard upon us, and we couldn’t take it anymore.  We were sick of being told that our worth is equivalent to what aesthetic pleasure our bodies can afford someone else (typically a man).

If your environment disturbs you, disturb it.

Or even better, disturb it with your friends.  Together, we formulated a plan and decided upon roles that we were all comfortable with: the distraction, the bagger, and the lookout.  The area was scoped out beforehand for cameras, number of employees, and general foot traffic, and escape routes were elaborated.  We created placards with anti-sexist rhetoric to replace the calendars, being cautious to touch them only with gloves on.

The distraction pretended to shop until the other two entered separately, and then began to engage the sole employee in conversation.  The bagger stashed the product in a trash bag, while the lookout stood beside watching for passersby and police.  After the product had been replaced with the placards, the bagger took the trash out through a side door, appearing as a mall employee.  Once sure the bagger hadn’t been followed, the lookout exited and headed to the meetup spot.  The distraction ended the conversation with the employee and walked away without incident.  We all left laughing.

A big part of any action is strengthening bonds of trust with those whom you already know and love.  We invite you to disturb your own environments, with these suggestions:

- Always use gloves for everything you handle (no fingerprints)

- Make sure you have enough bags/baggers (we had to make several trips, and the employee at your kiosk may not be so inattentive)

- Wear a very different change of clothes underneath your outfit–if followed, you can hide and remove the outer clothing.

- Wear something to obscure your face from cameras and passersby (if a hat, look down at the ground while passing a camera)

Be cautious, but don’t be paranoid.  This was (and should be) easy and fun!

  • http://cimarronline.blogspot.com/2004/05/paul-munn.html paul munn

    I’m sympathetic with this problem, but this kind of action seems pretty far from the example Jesus offered us (including his “mischief”). The stealing is one issue, which will undermine your cause with anyone except those who already rabidly on your side. And then there’s the hiding, another aspect that makes it hard to believe in the justice of your cause.

    If the calendars are so wrong and so important, and you’re courageous enough to act, why hide and run away? Jesus did his rebellious, prophetic acts openly and didn’t fear what the authorities could do to him. Because his cause was just and God was on his side. That’s not the message you send when you scurry away, chuckling to yourself.

    • Brett Taylor

      These remarks seem indicative of a really frustrating dynamic within radical circles: endlessly debating the legitimacy resistance tactics. Instead of recognizing that the harm done by the digital manipulation of women’s bodies and the mass production and dissemination of images that harm both female and male psychologies and how people relate to the female body as being evil and worthy of resistance in whatever form folks can muster up, we go and point out the ways in which folks engaged in resistance aren’t Jesus’y enough in how they resist.

      Well Jesus didn’t write a prescription for resistance. He established some broad guidelines which seem to critique using means that are antithetical to the end which they seek (i.e. taking up arms to establish peace), but other than that I tend to think Jesus seemed pretty non-dogmatic in his approach to resistance. By Jesus’ mischief I’m guessing you are referring to him knocking over tables in the temple? That is an action which didn’t glean much sympathy for Jesus’ cause either. To critique the action above on the grounds that it involved theft and thus wouldn’t be looked on sympathetically by most folks misses that Jesus’ acts were not looked on sympathetically (“give us Barabas”).

      Also, Jesus made slipped away covertly to avoid being arrested/stoned a number of times in my recollection. The picture you are painting of Jesus always standing stoically to face whatever consequences arose in any given instance is just not accurate. It is true, that in Jesus’ final moments, he did go willingly to a brutal and painful death at the hands of the authorities, but in my mind that was all part of a larger scheme which drew attention to and made a spectacle out of the brutality and violence that was common place and culminated in resurrection. Yes, it was badass! It wasn’t, however, Jesus’ prescription for anything that gets his stamp of approval in the future.

      I guess I’m just saying, yeah there is a place for bold acts of prophetic witness and willingness to stand by ones actions even up to arrest, but that isn’t the only form of resistance that we should be calling legitimate. We need resistance in any form that people can imagine and gather the courage to enact. We need to stop all this debating about tactics and start being supportive of each other in our attempts to resist domination in whatever way and context we feel called to. We undermine ourselves with all of our political in-fighting.

      • SarahLynne

        Amen! Couldn’t say it better.

      • http://cimarronline.blogspot.com/2004/05/paul-munn.html paul munn

        I’m a little confused. First you suggest promoting “resistance in whatever form folks can muster up,” then you say Jesus seems to oppose “using means that are antithetical to the end which they seek” (I’d say he goes much further than that, but at least you admit this much). So is it “by all means necessary” or not?

        In this calendar action, as I said, the justice and courage of the action are undermined by the means (stealing and hiding). But my concern is not about “gaining sympathy.” Neither was this Jesus’ concern, as far as I can see. He wasn’t trying to gather popular support. His actions (and hopefully ours) were about appealing to the conscience of those he encountered, including his enemies, so they would turn from evil freely and willingly. I don’t see stealing and covert actions appealing to people’s hearts, helping them be more like Jesus, when Jesus didn’t do things like that.

        As I recall, Jesus slipped through a crowd (seemingly miraculously) that was intending to stone him–and also one intending to make him king. But neither instance was anything like an anonymous, covert action. Everyone knew who he was, his words and actions were open and public, and people knew where to find him. That’s courage (or perhaps faith).

        • http://jesusradicals.com/ Brett Gershon

          Appreciate your thoughts Paul, and sorry for the confusion. I guess I need to clarify, that by promoting resistance in whatever form folks can muster, I’m specifically speaking about resistance that meets the broad guidelines of the means not being antithetical to the ends they seek. Our disagreement seems to be around whether or not this calendar action meets this criteria. From you initial comments it seemed to me that you contention was that the theft aspect was primarily counterproductive because it would disturb and alienate folks who otherwise might be sympathetic to the general sentiments of the action. It is clear now that this is not you primary concern and that rather you see the theft as being fundamentally an unjust action and thus compromising the action’s integrity. I guess I just don’t share the sentiment. I don’t really see Jesus sharing the sentiment either. I think it is odd that anyone would place the value of property over that of the dignity and self-worth of human beings. In my mind, the action is a small (perhaps futile) attempt to reclaim a bit of self-worth that is stolen from women by the continuous bombardment of images designed to make folks feel inadequate. The images are unjust; the calendar is unjust. They shouldn’t populate shelves and fill screens across the world. What is so unjust about removing some of them? A loss of profit for the store that was selling them?

          I do respect the fact that you approach this whole issue through the lens of what is Jesus about and what helps other people be more like Jesus. Totally get that and totally share the value. I just don’t think that this is actually counterproductive to that end. The action speaks nothing of how these folks relate to people, show love to people, carry themselves when interacting with people on a day to day basis. It is an example of someone acting out of their conscience against real structural injustice. I think that to shame these folks for doing so is wrong. Sure, in the grand scheme it isn’t the most effective action in the world, but it is an example of people doing something to fight back against injustices that they live through on a daily basis. At least they are doing that. The action didn’t hurt anyone, in my mind it did no injustice, and sure it wasn’t the most courageous, but in reality it does take some guts to pull it off and really who cares? I don’t ever see Jesus say anything like “when risking arrest while fighting structural injustice, make sure you aren’t sneaky about it.” I take your point that it isn’t really the same thing when Jesus slipped away into the crowd, but to say that “Jesus never did anything like that,” is attempting to create a blueprint from the life of Jesus where he didn’t really leave one. Don’t get me wrong, I think it is important to strive to be like Christ, but that happens in relationship with others “loving your neighbor,” “giving to the poor,” etc., i.e. in what we do, not in following a code of ethics, especially one that places property above people . . . if that makes sense (I am a bit scatter brained, but I promise I’m making sense to myself : )

          • http://cimarronline.blogspot.com/2004/05/paul-munn.html paul munn

            Probably the person(s) affected most is the employee who gets reamed for not paying attention. A worker that has no say in what is sold in the store and doesn’t get any profit from the calendars.

            I don’t care much about this action, except as an example of lots of actions like it. I don’t think it inspires much goodness in those who witness it, or those who do it. An overriding fear of the authorities is still obvious. We don’t see that in Jesus, which is what is truly inspiring and revolutionary.

            Maybe I’m invested, too, because I once rebelled and then ran scared (AWOL from the Navy), thinking I was doing something. But it wasn’t until I found the courage to come back and stand up for what I did (under the threat of military prison) that I knew what fear and faith were really about. (The story is here.)

            And maybe I think it makes it worse when we connect futile actions like this with some big noble-sounding cause called “Resistance.” That’s nothing, really, and has no chance of making any difference or really uniting anyone. Only Jesus’ way can make a difference, in those who embrace it. I’m just trying to point out how different Jesus’ way is.

          • 6025

            Some people walk by a rack of shitty calendars every day on the way to work. They try to think about what they should do. They come up with some options:

            -Destroy them and don’t get caught
            -Destroy them “publicly”
            -Don’t do anything directly to the calendars
            -Protest
            -(write a letter to your senator?)
            -Buy some

            None of these have a chance of making any difference or uniting anyone.
            Maybe someone can think of some more options. Here are some things that
            are nice about A)

            It does something (small). The calendars aren’t in anyone’s face anymore.

            -Nobody has to get in to big trouble over calendars. They can save up energy or
            get out of jail free cards or whatever for something bigger.
            -It’s good practice for something bigger.
            -Someone might be inspired or just reminded to do little things too, every day
            -It’s fun

          • http://cimarronline.blogspot.com/2004/05/paul-munn.html paul munn

            I’m curious, why do you think “it’s fun”? I get the same message from the article, so why is it fun?

            I have a feeling this is the real reason people do actions like this, including “bigger” ones…

          • Funcuz

            It’s also illegal , immoral , and completely selfish. Utterly childish reasoning.

            You know what you’ve done ? You’ve stolen. You’ve stolen thousands of dollars worth of merchandise that somebody has to pay for. Oh…but it won’t be you because you have no sense of responsibility. Fine. Don’t complain when somebody decides , rather arbitrarily , that something you’re doing that they don’t like gives them a free pass to commit a crime against you.

            I don’t like you. I don’t like you because you think there’s nothing wrong with taking food off of somebody’s plate just because it’s “fun”. I’ll bet you wouldn’t dare put your home address up here. Not so brave are you ? What’s wrong ? Worried that some vigilantes might show up at your door and have something to say about theft ? Don’t worry , if you just let them take whatever they want they may not break some of your bones. Who would you be to complain ? You said it was perfectly okay to commit crimes so long as the person committing the crime had fun.

            So go on… put your home address and phone number up here. The real thing without playing coy.

            You won’t do it because you’re actually just a coward and a bully and you genuinely think that you’ve actually done something positive.

          • Nekeisha

            You know what was legal not too long in the history of humanity? Capturing human beings, taking them from their homelands, enslaving them on plantations, raping the women, selling their children off, and enacting all manner of violence and abuse against all of them. You know what was illegal? The underground railroad, running away from the plantation, and organizing all manner of abolitionist strategies to get people out of that situation. What is legal is not always what is just. What is legal can also be completely immoral. As for who is taking food off of who’s plate, ask the employees of that store how much the make. Methinks the company making hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not millions) each year in the sale of items like this and paying their workers significantly less are the ones stealing in all manner of ways.

        • HH Brownsmith

          Paul, your argument is struggling. Jesus “slipped away” very often. Every healing and exorcism (except the demoniac) performed by Jesus in the book of Mark is followed by Jesus commanding the healed person to never mention the healing. It is also usually the case that Jesus leaves the region after he performs the healing or exorcism. Why? Not out of humility, Paul. Jesus was evading the cops.
          The people who stole these calendars were doing what they could to resist the culture of coercion, domination, and rape. They did not hurt anyone (I promise that the corporation that was selling these things wrote the loss off and never thought about it again). It is also important to note that this is NOT violence and this is NOT aggression. The culture promotes the violation of women’s bodies and women shouldn’t have to sit idly by. We have to stop telling marginalized folks to lay down and take it in the name of Jesus.

          • Guest

            “The people who stole these calendars were doing what they could to
            resist the culture of coercion, domination, and rape.” All while
            chuckling about it… Why where they chuckling? Because they were defending women’s dignity or because they were amused by their actions? What they did was wrong and it is absolutely not inspiring at all.

          • Nekeisha

            So it’s not okay to be amused and defend women’s dignity? Really? I’ve been to protests against war that were loads of fun. I’ve been to others that were solemn and filled with lament. Why exactly must one be antithetical to another?

          • Guest

            I think they were amused because they were breaking the law (and getting away with it), not because they where having wholesome fun or because they were doing something that it was right.

          • http://cimarronline.blogspot.com/2004/05/paul-munn.html paul munn

            First, I don’t hear anyone saying to lay down. I’m saying stand up, like Jesus did, rather than running and hiding.

            Second, that was about “evading the cops”? Seriously? Everywhere Jesus went there were crowds, and his asking not to tell didn’t diminish this at all; do you think that would be the case if he was telling them he feared for his life? Then when Lazarus was dying, Jesus doesn’t try to hide but lays it out:

            He said to the disciples, “Let us go to Judea again.” The disciples said to him, “Rabbi, the Jews were just now trying to stone you, and are you going there again?”

            Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours of daylight? Those who walk during the day do not stumble, because they see the light of this world. But those who walk at night stumble, because the light is not in them.”

            And at his trial, Jesus tells the high priest, “I have spoken openly to the world; I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all the Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret.”

            Thanks for giving me the opportunity to make the argument stronger…

          • Roger

            Actually “the twelve hours of daylight” are a reference to the twelve disciples and the twelve tribes of Israel to a lesser extent. Those who embrace Christian faith and discipleship will not stumble.

          • Barry T.

            I’m not so sure this isn’t an act of violence. Perhaps someone involved with this stunt should check in with the employee at the store to see if he or she was fired. That would be the stand up thing to do, something that Jesus would do. I have to be honest this little stunt just seems like the kind of thing a bunch of kids who have never had to work a day of their lives would do.

          • HH Brownsmith

            For all of the concern y’all are showing for these mega businesses and their employees you seem to know very little about how their shoplifting policies work. First off, national chains have it built into their yearly budget that a portion of their stock will “walk off” at some point during the year. This action did not hurt this business’s bottom line. Secondly, employees of mega book stores and mega craft stores (not gonna name names but you know who I’m talking about) are told not to confront folks they believe are shop-lifting. If the person isn’t stealing and they unjustly corner a customer they lose that customer, the customer’s friends, and may have complaints lodged against their business. They do not get fired if they turn a blind eye…that’s what they are asked to do. Thirdly, even if a corporation doesn’t have the aforementioned policy, low level employees rarely stop shoplifters. Why? Because an underpaid, overworked employee is not going to go out of their way to protect a shitty company that doesn’t care about them.

            Folks who oppose theft as an action need to really sort out why they oppose it instead of just claiming that some low-level employee is being punished or fired because of the action. It just isn’t true.

          • Nekeisha

            Thank you for speaking from and educated perspective on this. Folks get all bent out of shape over property and fail to realize the facts about the systems that are in play while ignoring the absolute heinousness that these images and a host of other things that are “legal” do — not only to women — but to all creatures in this creation. Most of these responses reflect a deep seated capitalist and patriarchal agenda that have nothing to do with liberation or with Jesus for that matter.

      • saidgrl

        Wurd.

    • mountainguy

      Think I am on your side, but let’s accept we are limited because of the fact that (broadly speaking) “theft is a crime”.

      Let me use an example: is common in some cities (or most? I have not traveled that much) to find prostitution propaganda (papers, etc) glued on street lights (prostitution, strippers, etc). I’m pretty sure many people get rid of said propaganda, and in fact some folks of mine in Buenos Aires usually do that. I dont know if this is considered a crime (unlike the example of this article), but the truth is that said actions are nothing when compared to the damage brought by companies and/or business (pimps included) who profit from sexism.

      Ps: There’s a lot of discussion about what should be the legality of prostitution. Some countries punish both prostitutes and clients, some others just the clients and pimps. I bring this because I know that prostitution is not something to be left behind to the laws of “free market”, but the posibility of promoting a ban on prostitution makes me feel like a fundie authoritarian (which leaves unanswered the question of what should christian anarchist do about this problem)

    • Nekeisha

      Saul was preaching the gospel in Damascus and when it became clear that his life was in danger for taking that action, he didn’t stand out in the open and keep preaching until he got caught. He hid in a basket, was secretly let out through and opening in the wall, and he ran like the dickens with the aiding and abetting of others — Acts 4:24-26 There is absolutely no rule in the gospels that says one must wait to be prosecuted. Even Jesus ran and hid from time to time. Waiting for capture was a tactic of the Civil Rights Movement and has been a tactic within the antiwar movement, and taking such action was once as very good strategy for placing political pressure on governing officials. By filling the jails and overwhelming the system, you could force those in charge to come to the table. That was the point. It’s one thing to continue to insist that waiting for arrest is the way to go. But it’s another thing to insist that doing so is a Biblical mandate or the only way to follow Christ’s example, especially when the Biblical witness is actually mixed on that point.

      • http://cimarronline.blogspot.com/2004/05/paul-munn.html paul munn

        Hi Nekeisha. I don’t think I said anything about rules. I was contrasting Jesus’ example to covert actions like this one. He seems to me to have been pretty intentional about doing his prophetic challenges out in the open, without fear of the authorities, and that’s startling and powerfully inspiring. Yes, we saw some of that in the Civil Rights Movement as well. I don’t see Jesus always necessarily “waiting for capture,” but his example seems far from this anonymity, hiding face and fingerprints, clearly afraid of being known and connected with the action.

        I’ve offered support for my understanding, including Jesus’ own explanation (see this comment: “I have spoken openly to the world; I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all the Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret”). All you say is “Jesus ran and hid from time to time.” If you want to offer something more specific than that, I’ll consider it.

  • guest

    Reminded me of the song “I Was A Teenage Anarchist” by Against Me. Petty.

  • guest

    I think this is wrong and aggressive too.

  • st art

    good job! i think a rendering of the calender should have been included but barred with the sayings, or maybe its just the pictures make it hard to tell whats being bombed, and/or maybe put pictures of normal people in bathing suits(like lets get real).

  • Mike Ward

    This happened in Burford Georgia. The victim was Jessica Roy who owns the business the calendars were stolen from.

    It was aproximately 100 calendars worth about $2000.

    Roy works on commission, and only operates the kisosk for three months a year. The theft has cost her her profits for the season, and she problably won’t be able to give her employees bonuses this year.

    The calendars are on consignment, and Roy will have to pay for the missing merchandise.

    She also said she will lose her security deposit.

    She is askig to get the calendars back even if they are damaged because she can write off damaged products but not missing products.

    You can see a picture of Jessice Roy, the woman whose livelihood has been diminshed in Jesus name, here:

    http://www.wftv.com/news/news/national/thieves-steal-calendars-leave-protest-signs/ncBQ8/

    Personally, I don’t see how this is funny.

    • Barry T.

      Amen Mike, my heart goes out to Ms. Roy it’s even more sad that these clowns saw fit to destroy her business during the Christmas season. Maybe Jesus Radicals could host a fundraiser for her, that would truly be a “radical” thing to do.

      • 6025

        I’ll reimburse the employees for their lost bonus. How many are there? What were bonuses last Christmas?

    • http://cimarronline.blogspot.com/2004/05/paul-munn.html paul munn

      I didn’t notice anything in either article to indicate this was done “in Jesus’ name.” Not sure why this was posted here. As I said before, it doesn’t seem like it was done as Jesus showed us, or in the spirit of his work.

      Jesus did a lot of shocking and rebellious things, but I never got the sense he did it for “fun.”

      • Barry T.

        Who exactly runs Jesus Radicals? Seems like they have some explaining to , at least an apology for promoting the juvenile acts of those ass clowns who stole the calendars.

        • Mike Ward

          It’s an incredible irony that one of the signs the thieves left behind says, “F— the patriarchy,” when the primary victim here is a woman.

          Not only that, but what they think of as the “patriarchy” actually made money off of this. The calendars are on consignment. Jessica Roy does not own them; she’s just responsible for them. Since they were stolen, she will have to pay for them, but if they had just gone unsold it would have cost her nothing. In effect, the company that owns the calendars sold them all because of this, and Roy is the one footing the bill.

          On another site (http://atlanta.indymedia.org/local/calendar-grrlz) one of the perps says they still walk by the kiosk on the way to work and smile. They are either blissfully unaware that they are hurting a real person while lining the pockets of the “patriarchs,” or they just don’t care.

          • Barry T.

            Hey Mike, any word on whether or not the boys in blue have a lead on these jokers? It sure would make my Christmas a little brighter knowing that those turkeys will be spending the holidays behind bars.

          • Mike Ward

            I have no idea. The thieves have been rather careless posting about it on at least two websites and revealing that they work at the mall where the crime was committed, Mall of Georgia, so I think they should be catchable if the cops are really trying.

          • Nekeisha

            Having a vagina alone does not prevent someone from wittingly or unwittingly participating in patriarchy and sexism. Indeed, many women actively defend the male-dominant status quo so pointing out the owner’s gender alone is unhelpful. If Miss Roy indicated in the article that she is a self-proclaimed feminist then you would have a point. Although the next question I would have is why would a self-proclaimed feminist would sell those calendars in the first place. Second, according to the very article your posted, Roy does not seem to care about the calendars as such: she cares about being able to write-off the damage. The people who took that action could bring them back, in her own words, “wet and soggy” which would make them unsellable, but that would be financially fine. So if they took it all back completely defaced and Roy was able to make up her profit, would that suit you? What’s the real issue here?

        • http://jesusradicals.com/ Brett Gershon

          Barry, it is stated (maybe it needs to be stated more clearly) that the articles posted here do not necessarily reflect an official Jesus Radicals position. The articles are meant to bring folks into conversation about various topics relating to anarchism and Christianity. These conversations, in my opinion, can be very helpful. This particular conversation has prompted me to reconsider some of my views on what constitutes positive forms of resistance. The point is not to promote the actions taken by the folks in article, but to draw people into conversation.

          • Barry T.

            Yeah, ya know what Brett, here’s the thing. You all can wear your Che t-shirts and talk about how bad everything is and how Karl Marx was right and all that’s fine it’s called freedom of speech. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with people like the goofballs who perpetrated this crime against a small business woman who’s simply trying to make ends meet. The fact that someone posted this story and thought it was a great act of courage or vindication or whatever just burns me… If you honestly believe this was posted simply to “start conversation” and not meant to promote these actions, well then the glasses you’re looking through are more rose colored than mine my friend.
            Like I said earlier I wouldn’t be surprised if the lackeys who stole the calendars have never worked a day of their life, sit around and complain about how unfair everything is while mommy and daddy pay for everything. Now don’t get me wrong I can understand the desperation of poor people all over the world doing what they have to do to get by and maybe even make a political point from time to time but for some dumbasses to paint themselves as heroes for stealing a woman’s livelihood and to have that propaganda posted and applauded and held up as model behavior!?!? No, that’s not ok.

          • http://jesusradicals.com/ Brett Gershon

            I’m just saying there is a disclaimer. If you didn’t see it, I thought perhaps it needs to be made more prominent. If you did see it and chose to disregard it, that’s your deal. Sometimes articles get put up on this site that make people really angry and conversations usually happen as a result.

          • saidgrl

            Wow, I was so interested in reading about Jesus radicals (Im not religious) from the post i saw linking this article. Considering the narrow thinking, presumptions and aggression in the comments…. well, I’m out. Rage on.

          • http://www.markvans.info/ markvans

            I can safely say that the most negative comments here come from folks who have nothing to do with Jesus Radicals.

          • saidgrl

            Filters Markvans Filters!
            I was hoping to dig into some convo. :)

          • http://cimarronline.blogspot.com/2004/05/paul-munn.html paul munn

            Yeah, I don’t see any problem with filtering out comments that are just name-calling with no real content.

          • http://jesusradicals.com/ Brett Gershon

            Agreed Paul, wanted to say also that though you and I aren’t fully on the same page, I appreciate your respectful manner of mutual exchange.

          • http://jesusradicals.com/ Brett Gershon

            There is definitely more dickism making its rounds in this article than is usually the case around here. Thanks for your input!

          • saidgrl

            I was interested in/following everything you were saying brett.

    • http://jesusradicals.com/ Brett Gershon

      Why are people so vehement in their defense of a persons right to profit off of images that diminish millions of lives everyday? I don’t want to demonize Ms. Roy as a perpetrator of oppression by her choice to sell these calendars out of her business, but I’d also want to be careful in painting her as a victim when she willingly made space on her shelves for that degrading crap. Y’all seem to think that it isn’t fair that someone lost money over this, but is it fair that people have to live in a world where folks make enormous amounts of money off of slinging that garbage?

      • Funcuz

        Degrading to whom ? The women who gladly posed for the photos ? They were actually quite proud to do it , I’m sure.

        That’s the problem with you guys : You think that everything you don’t like is immoral. You think it’s always negative. Why can’t you see it as positive ? What’s wrong with providing an example for other women to follow ? What’s wrong with being attractive ? That’s a crime now ? It’s wrong to be attractive so nobody should be allowed to see attractive people ?

        What gives you the right to decide what people can and can’t see ? I think too many people drive when they should be walking. Does that mean I can steal their cars or at least damage them such that they’re damaged beyond repair ? I don’t like Westboro Baptist , any large bank , or N.O.W. I’m still not going to bomb their offices or homes. Are you okay with doing that because apparently you think that such actions can be rationalized in an “ends justify the means” kind of way.

        You are mistaken. Completely mistaken. Don’t like ? Don’t look or listen. If you can’t do that then you tell the appropriate authority. You don’t defend thieves or any other criminals or their criminal actions.

        • http://jesusradicals.com/ Brett Gershon

          Degrading to the women who posed for the photos? Yes for one, just as hardcore pornography degrades the women who also consent to participating in it. Do you not think that it is a problem that women who model for this shit often have their self worth entirely wrapped up in their beauty which they punish their bodies and rigorously work to maintain a standard which is narrowly defined? In addition to the degradation of the models, it degrades everyone who is bombarded with these images everyday (images which are digitally altered to a high degree producing a standard that even the models themselves who punish their bodies can’t achieve) and who are brainwashed into believing that what is portrayed in the images constitutes beauty in most pure form. There is nothing wrong with being attractive! I see attractive people everyday. Attractive people who believe they are unattractive because of the ubiquity of these images.

          Am I advocating for unrestrained destruction of anything that is oppressive in some way? No! There is a big difference between this calendar thing and say bombing a bank or Westboro Baptist. I’m sorry if you’ve made a leap in logic that would suggest that I’m okay with killing people. That isn’t a message I intended to convey and looking at my previous comments I don’t believe I did convey that.

          And you are right! There is degrading crap on television as well. Degrading content which is conveyed through images. And you are right there is no shortage of things to point to which degraded someone in one way or another. Every single thing though? I don’t really share that point of view, but your point is taken. Lots of things degrade people. Sooo . . . people should what? Sit idly by and give themselves over to the bleak point of view that exploitation is a natural part of our existence? People exploit other people for their own happiness and that is just how it is? Sorry, but I refuse to accept that.

          • Nekeisha

            “There is a big difference between this calendar thing and say bombing a
            bank or Westboro Baptist. I’m sorry if you’ve made a leap in logic that
            would suggest that I’m okay with killing people.” Thank you for patiently pointing this out. If the people had gone in the store with guns and shot the employees and ran off with the calendars and left the signs behind, there wouldn’t be a conversation to have because it wouldn’t be on this site. That is not what happened and using amplified language to make it seem as if throwing out calendars is the same as using bombs against a church is ridiculous.

        • Nekeisha

          What example to follow? I am an attractive, self-loving black woman who does not, on her best day, reflect the going standard of beauty. What that means it that I will never be able to “live up to” the “example” a white supremacist, patriarchal culture wants me to fit. So what exactly is positive about receiving that message in my face every day exactly? And what in the universe about this is about mob rule? If there is a mob mentality at play, it is within the society that promotes these ridiculous messages about what is and isn’t attractive and who should and shouldn’t have self worth and who women’s bodies are meant to please etc. And for the record, I want to see those who are victims of capitalist sweatshop labor and those who are on the bottom of society doing jobs they feel compelled to do because of their class status have just options as well. So I’m not sure how that is antithetical to the point being made.

      • http://www.groverbeachbum.blogspot.com/ Neil

        They are vehement in their defense because self-righteous, selfish idiots went out of their way to show their “moral superiority” by stealing and hurting another human being.

        If you think that nudie pictures or depicting women’s bodies or sexuality actually harms anyone, you are pretty much the definition of a stupid, sex-shaming, fear-driven dumbass, with nothing but either hysterical, religion-based sex-shame, or feminist pseudo-science and sex shame (or both) to support your idiocy. And because you are so stupid and self-righteous to boot, you think it is ok to harm others to satisfy your own petty emotional needs.

        The intersection of religion and feminism…..oh lordy, the spoiled, self-righteous, intolerant, hate-filled moron brigade at it’s worst.

        • http://jesusradicals.com/ Brett Gershon

          I’d engage you in conversation, but judging from that handful of insults you’ve injected into your argument, I’m guessing it wouldn’t be worth it.

          • saidgrl

            I think the problem here is that the name “Jesus Radicals” appeals to the population that feeds the system Jesus Radicles actually wants to work against. Yikes on the one way street many posters are thinking on.

      • saidgrl

        A goal of the Oppressor(s) is to get the Oppressed to ‘buy in’ to the image the Oppressors create. Buy in, accept it, normalize and live it. That’s one reason that a woman owned business would sell items that distort femininity into one of the Oppressor’s acceptable images of women and girls.

  • guest

    This was stupidity, not revolutionary. You need an organized party for revolution, not sneaky kids stealing pamphlets from some poor street vendor. This is just lifestyle anarchism. It is meaningless. It makes a few people feel good, but it is like pissing in the ocean and claiming to have made the tide higher.

  • Funcuz

    Wait a moment here…

    Let me see if I’ve got this straight : There’s a business. Some people have a problem with a business that sells perfectly legal offerings. Their solution is to become thieves. That’s right …it’s stealing. Thievery. A crime. Criminals commit crimes. Who , anywhere at any time , said that stealing was okay in a civilized and ordered society ?

    So now that we’re clear that we’re not talking about radicals , activists , social justice seekers , or any other whitewashing term one can drum up but rather we’re talking about plain old thieves , let’s discuss what it is that these thieves found so offensive.

    Don’t like it ? Well then tell your local lawmakers. Nobody was forced to take those pictures. Nobody was forced to pose for them. Nobody was harmed but were , in fact , rewarded for doing so. Who rewarded them ? Their employers. Their employers were rewarded by their customers. So what does that tell you ? It tells you that people want what they’re selling. So who are YOU to tell other people what they can and can’t see or enjoy ?

    I have to listen to religious fundamentalists , radical leftists , man-hating feminists spew their hatred of most of the things I like. I listen to it all the time. I see the man-bashing and neglect of males thanks to feminists on television , in print , on the internet , in government publications , and on and on it goes. Do I head down to the local N.O.W. offices with a blowtorch ? No. Know why ? Because , apart from the fact that it’s illegal , it would also be a major over-reaction and immoral. The point , however , is that while I would in fact classify most of it as disgusting , vile , and entirely bigoted , it IS still perfectly legal. I can’t stop it and I have no right to stop it directly. What I CAN do is write letters to like-minded individuals expressing my revulsion at the tactics employed by people who would clearly like to see me chained up in a dungeon until it was time for work.

    So what have these thieves actually accomplished ? Well , they’ve ruined somebody’s life for a sufficiently punishing period of time. Taken food off their table and possibly set them up for an eviction. Meanwhile , the thieves go home and slap each others’ backs at what a “brave” thing they’ve done by stealing. They genuinely think of themselves as some sort of Robin Hoods. Will that stop the objectification of anybody ? No. Never. It will NEVER happen. Know why ? Because if both MEN AND WOMEN didn’t objectify each other , there would be no babies born. Have a problem with that ? Take it up with god.

    There is NO excuse for this pathetic act of thievery. They’ve done absolutely NOTHING positive. If they were actually remotely decent people , these thieves would be paying for the damage to the business’ reputation as well as the materials they stole. Maybe they can skip a few meals since they think it’s perfectly fine to make others do so.

    Want to do something positive you snotty little thieves ? Pay back the woman you stole from and pay for the damage you’ve caused. Were it me in your position , I’d be thinking about how to come up with about $5000. I’m just guessing but that seems reasonable.

    Pay for what you’ve done or forever be called what you really are : THIEVES !

  • EJ Spurrell

    That’s right. Because, as we all know, two wrongs ALWAYS make a right.

    The perpetrators should be caught and charged to the fullest extent.

  • whocares2

    I hope you get charged by the police for the obvious theft that took place. Scumbags all of you who took part in this. Skulking, scurrying, hiding little cowards.

  • Nekeisha

    By the way here is what Jessica Roy, the owner of the kiosk, actually has to say about the incident: “I’m pretty forgiving … you want to bring them back crumpled and wet and soggy and put them in a box or bag and leave them for me, that’s fine,” she says. “I can write off damaged products; I can’t write off missing product.” I think that’s a good compromise. If those who took the calendars still have them, take them back defaced in some way. Jessica Roy saves her profit. A statement about justice is made. Win-and-win.

    • Joe

      Well. That actually seems like quite an interesting exchange of views.

      I suppose my main question is a practical one: actually what does a campaign like this achieve? I think I’ve probably shed my inhibitions about damage to property and.. maybe even to forms of violence.. but I don’t think I’ve lost the idea that the means have to match up with the ends. So if we want to remove misogynist calendars from the streets, how does direct action like this do that (in the long term rather than the short term)?

      Wouldn’t it have been better to discuss the ethical points with the owner? And if we honestly think that we should take the civil law into our own hands, shouldn’t we have the guts to do it in public and take whatever punishment is meted out by the authorities? I know others have said something similar above, so I apologise for repeating.

      As to the ‘writing off’, I wonder what that actually means – if the owners will give credit for damaged stock, I wonder if they really will in this circumstance. It seems a bit unlikely to me.

  • mariakirby

    Two wrongs never make a right.

    • Guest

      Indeed

  • Jim

    Radicals, you guys should be very careful with your foolishness. This time it was just considered a silly prankish deal. I would hope that you are not full of bravado for this small success that you’re all obviously patting each other on your backs about. A word to the wise, if you allow your endeavours to escalate you will soon find yourselves in trouble that the laughter you display now will not get you out of the trouble you will find yourselves in later. You see the problem here is not the destruction of some silly calendar girls… it is about what this will lead to. Petty crimes/petty drug use… everything that has a bad ending started out small time. But if your new found bravado emboldens you to take that next step in the “name of the lord” it will be just a matter of time till we get to see those smiling faces splashed across our TV screens. Better start making better choices in the name of your cause. -Jim

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